40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby mareck » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:17 pm

So mission 2 tertiary objective... does the -1 last the whole game?
As its a nearly 18% disadvantage given to people not using the vsf..
So basically might as well pack up if facing a vsf list on mission 2.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Ultima » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:41 pm

How does it specifically benefit the vsf ?
I see no mention of VSF anywhere there ?

Also im 150% sure its supposed to read "for the turn on which they arrive"
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby mareck » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Vsf is a single detachment. So nobody left off the board.
On turn 1 when reserves come in, all heavy weapons guys will have -2 as they moved.
All those units will also have to rush to cover.

Its not specified for one turn only, so we need clarity.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Ultima » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:43 pm

Yeah. Agreed on the clarity.

But everyone has the ability to build a single detachment army using normal detachments ?
So it doesnt really favour the VSF specifically. but rather single detachment armies which the VSF is.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby mareck » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:58 pm

@Ultima, you do seem to be more of a troll.

If u new some of the players doing non vsf lists you would know that they are all pretty much doing multi detachments.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Ultima » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:45 pm

I am not trolling.
I do happen to know a few peoples lists already, and there are a few single detachments non vsf being built.

I am actually just trying to be helpful as i have been participating in Veterans for many years and understand the thoughts that Brindley puts into his rule sets.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:53 am

mareck wrote:Vsf is a single detachment. So nobody left off the board.
On turn 1 when reserves come in, all heavy weapons guys will have -2 as they moved.
All those units will also have to rush to cover.

Its not specified for one turn only, so we need clarity.



This mission took inspiration from a rule that has been in Vets since the beginning - the rule where you could send a unit off the board until turn 4. I was going to do something similar with a detachment, but had no way to work it out with the advent of 8th and how things are working - I opted for a the detachment choice.

It is definitely the first turn only - the idea is to balance the beta-strike capability of deploying all off board, and coming on and shooting everything up.

This all being said, you've seemed to have missed the point that if you have a small primary detachment, you have less units that are able to be killed for that tertiary mission - as you can only score KP from primary detachment units. This means that any unit killed in a VSF (or single force detachment) will count, while only units in a multi-faction primary will count.


Finally, the idea behind vets has always been to try take the current meta and force different play, force different style and punish the norm in order to let gaming ability and tactics (rather than gimmicks) shine through.

It's at least one reason why Vets has never been won by a "gimmick" list and only ever higher comp, solid gaming lists that play to the missions, rather than the current meta.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:46 am

Mission Pack and Rules Pack updated and posted.


Enjoy!

(Thanks to Matt for editing/suggestions)
Attachments
2018_Vets_Rules_Pack.doc
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Vets Missions.doc
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:52 am

Small clarification regarding composition that someone has just picked up.

For Troops we have this:

"-2 For each unit of TROOPS after the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT that are not full strength"

We also have this:

-3 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 50% full strength.
-1 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 66% full strength.

These two are not cumulative.

In short, the TROOP penalty takes precedence in terms of penalties.
eg: If you have a Batallion, and you took 5 Troop units, 3 of those (the compulsory units) could technically be under-strength. You would only incur penalty if more than 3 units were not full strength.

You will not get additional penalties for the size.

Thanks.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby q21 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:32 am

So, 2 hypotheticals:

3 troops units in battalion. 2 at full, 1 at under 50%. What is the total penalty for this?

5 troops in a battalion. 1 at full, 3 at less than 50%, 1 at 60%. Total penalty?
You know those times when you wish you could think of something funny or interesting to say, but just can't... yeah, this is one of those times.
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:49 am

Sizes for Troops are not important. -2 if under-strength, fullstop.

Hypothetical 1 = no penalty

Hypothetical 2 = -2 only (for the one unit - after the first three - that is under strength).
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:03 am

ANNOUNCEMENT :


1:

All lists must use the Game Workshop Grand Tournament army roster.
You may not submit or use Army Builder Lists.
You may either use the official roster linked, or you may type out one of your own that includes the same information.

All additional/non-standard wargear must be listed.

2:

PLEASE make sure that your lists are submitted to Brindleysa@gmail.com (scanned, typed, or good quality photo) by FRIDAY 20th JULY - 12PM (afternoon) - this will give me the evening to check legality of lists.

3:

PLEASE make sure to include your total composition score !!! And your respective deductions (eg: -15 For no TROOP units at full strength, etc.)
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:29 pm

(thanks to those who spotted this)


CLARIFICATION on VSF and TROOP deductions:


As noted in the post above,


For Troops we have this:

"-2 For each unit of TROOPS after the MINIMUM REQUIREMENT that are not full strength"

This rule is incompatible with the VSF.
The VSF for Troop selection will instead be THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE and follow this:

"
-3 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 50% full strength.
-1 for each unit in a primary detachment that is not above 66% full strength. "


(For further clarification and pedantry, the intention of the 66% includes the "0.6666" reoccurring for 2/3rd fractions. You need to be OVER 2/3rds to not get a -1).
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Saieden » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:50 am

@Brindley: Mission FAQ.

Mission 1

Clearance Duty:


Does movement outside of the movement (such as from psychic powers and stratagems) trigger mines as well?

Can a unit be hit by mines more than once each turn?

Can mines hit units that move or charge in your opponent’s turn (eg stooping dive)?

Can weapons that rely on the targets leadership be used against mines (eg Hallucinogenic Grenade Launcher)? If so, what is the value?

Mission 2

First In Last Out:


Do we follow the normal alternating deployment for placing in units reserve as part of this objective?

After arriving in this way (moving on from the board edge), can a unit move again with Stratagems and/or Psychic Powers?

Mission 3

Command Beacon and Relay Post:


(Comment/Suggestion: It’s very rare to have contested objectives in 8th, unlike in 7th where it was a fairly reliable contingency plan. As a result, the second condition for the Command Beacon and Relay Post might as well be ignored in terms of mission strategy. Perhaps consider rewording somewhere so we have something to play for other than the tertiary condition)

Can I attack my own Relay Post to score the tertiary condition?

Special Delivery:

How does the chosen unit arrive on the board?

After arriving in this way, can it move again with Stratagems and/or Psychic Powers?

Can the unit use a stratagem or ability to deepstrike, or one that allows it be placed on the board at the start of the first battle round?

Sabotage:

Is “ranged weapon type” for a specific model, unit or the entire army?

Can we choose not to fire a ranged weapon if the unit/model fires other weapons?

Mission 4

Warp Out:


Can a single model unit Warp Out if it is barely within 5” of the center?

Scorched Earth 1:

Does the majority of, or whole, the unit need to be in or touching the terrain piece?

Scorched Earth 2:

Can a unit split over 2 quarters choose which side it is in, or do we go by majority models/closest?
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Re: 40K VETERANS - CAPE TOWN TYGERVALLEY 21 JULY 2018

Postby Brindley U » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:03 pm

Thanks for all the questions!!

Saieden wrote:
Mission 1

Clearance Duty:


Does movement outside of the movement (such as from psychic powers and stratagems) trigger mines as well?
Can a unit be hit by mines more than once each turn?
Can mines hit units that move or charge in your opponent’s turn (eg stooping dive)?

yes to all of the above.


Can weapons that rely on the targets leadership be used against mines (eg Hallucinogenic Grenade Launcher)? If so, what is the value?

Nope


Mission 2

First In Last Out:


Do we follow the normal alternating deployment for placing in units reserve as part of this objective?

Great question. Yeah, you would.


After arriving in this way (moving on from the board edge), can a unit move again with Stratagems and/or Psychic Powers?

For purposes of this specific rule (ie: not the other units in reserve, only "First In, Last Out" ,yes, they may.


Mission 3

Command Beacon and Relay Post:


(Comment/Suggestion: It’s very rare to have contested objectives in 8th, unlike in 7th where it was a fairly reliable contingency plan. As a result, the second condition for the Command Beacon and Relay Post might as well be ignored in terms of mission strategy. Perhaps consider rewording somewhere so we have something to play for other than the tertiary condition)

This is a cut/paste error moving it from a primary to a secondary. There is only a 15 point win for both Beacon and Relay Post or 10 points claiming your Post and having it contested. I see what you mean about contestation, so will be sure to clarify how this may be contested on the day.

Can I attack my own Relay Post to score the tertiary condition?

Definitely not.

Special Delivery:

How does the chosen unit arrive on the board?

Good catch. They must come on from their board edge.


After arriving in this way, can it move again with Stratagems and/or Psychic Powers?

In this case, no.

Can the unit use a stratagem or ability to deepstrike, or one that allows it be placed on the board at the start of the first battle round?

Clarified above with moving on from board edge!


Sabotage:

Is “ranged weapon type” for a specific model, unit or the entire army?

As in the rulepack "on one of their units"

Can we choose not to fire a ranged weapon if the unit/model fires other weapons?

As per usual firing rules, sure!

Mission 4

Warp Out:


Can a single model unit Warp Out if it is barely within 5” of the center?

If 50% of the unit(/model) is in the area, yes.

Scorched Earth 1:

Does the majority of, or whole, the unit need to be in or touching the terrain piece?

No requirement. Just a unit touching.

Scorched Earth 2:

Can a unit split over 2 quarters choose which side it is in, or do we go by majority models/closest?

You cannot split, and if some units are out of the area, your unit will be defined as no being "in" the board quarter.



Thanks again for so many good catches.
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