40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby burstear » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:24 am

the article lined by Draugr is intresting.
valid point that was made, is 2000pts does not have to be the tournament standered...the size has changed as the game evolved 1500 1750 1850 2000....so why not put it on a level where time and size is balanced 1750 1850

both those sizes allow diverse list to be built. and both handle 2hr30 min play time
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby und_ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:14 am

So I don't have a dog in this race, but just as a note from the sidelines I would think the Doc rot's post if anything is a strong argument in favour of death clock.

That his opponents dawdle is a problem death clock solves.
That his shooty army typically only reaches turn #4 / turn #5 is a big problem when his army is strongest in the early turns and weakest in the later turns, and again is something unfair that death clock solves.
For a player to lose on time is perfectly fair in a death clock environment since the death clock ensures that only the player that wasted time is going to lose.

Take it or leave it, I'm not a 40K player so this one doesn't really affect me, but my experiences of using a clock in tabletop gaming have been overwhelmingly positive, and it seems a shame for the 40K community to lose out.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby The BAG » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:31 pm

I'm not sure on the mechanics, but any game where your opponent has choices to make and actions to take in your turn, ie your time, is not suitable for timed games.

also, no dog in this, i do like the clock though, very much.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby Doc Rot » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:10 pm

The BAG wrote:I'm not sure on the mechanics, but any game where your opponent has choices to make and actions to take in your turn, ie your time, is not suitable for timed games.

also, no dog in this, i do like the clock though, very much.



What the Bagster says here makes sense. For KoW where your oppoent has no (or very little) interaction in your turn, a death clock makes 100% sense.

But in something where the opponent can unduly influence your death clock i.e. saves, reading up on their own rules (is it a 3+ or 5+ save etc), dropping dice, and other shennanigans, I think this could leave a salty taste in ones mouth. And not the salty goodness we all love and crave.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby und_ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:32 pm

What you describe are the teething problems of getting used to clock play. We had the same things to get used to in WM, but they very quickly become non-issues. When your opponent is wasting time looking things up, you simply shift the clock over on to his clock. Same if he's taking forever making his save rolls, or deciding whether or not to overwatch.

What small irritations it causes (and yes, there will be some) are far less than the aggravation saved by not having a good gameplan shut down because your opponent skewed the game in his favour by denying two turns. It also forces tournament players to become more familiar with their rules so that they don't waste 20 minutes double-checking rules they should already know.

I recommend giving it a try (maybe not first try in Nats, but whatever). I know I never looked back, and I genuinely begrudge playing without a clock now in tournaments.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby AfkFanatic » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:00 pm

Having something in place other than "That dude is a [removed]" accusations in place would be nice
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby Draugr » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:49 am

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/04/ ... k-you.html

Seems like the yanks agree, however I cant help but wonder that with the SA community being smaller and a large part of the players being casual players how well this will be received and if it would impact tournament attendance?
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby Rift » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:04 am

I’ve played warmachine with death clocks and I feel it’s the fairest way to play any system that has time constraints.

I fully support death clocks at a high end tournament like nationals.

If I choose to play a horde army, it’s my responsibility to make sure I can play my army in the time constraints placed on me, which goes exactly the same for my opponent.

This stops those sneaky people who play for time, which I have a huge problem with and I’m sure those of you that has played nationals in the past has come across those kinds that tries and pull that fast one.

Keep the game fair. Your opponent should not be penalized if you take more than half the allotted game time.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby burstear » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:21 am

Im a competitive player( i play a few tourney games if i can) and i play casual games just to pass the time, and secretly try new tactics.

what ever the rules say ill do...if i can have a more relaxed game at 1850 so be it...if im gonna be over preassured due to time then i might make more mistake, then so be it.

competitive games are always pressured games.

personally im against death clock, cause now im being forced to reconsinder my current list. (hypothectical lis)
ork horde
4x hq
170 boyz
60 stormboyz

ork only true comptitive list is horde....but now i would need to go for a non-competitve list just so it can be time effecient.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby Rift » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:55 am

so are you saying, learning how to play your horde army faster or using unit trays are out of the question?

honestly, i dont think it should be a problem, only thing i would suggest is to practice a couple of game with a clock to get yourself used to be time conscious and youll find it becomes second nature pretty fast.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby burstear » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:28 am

im saying, if rules say clock i will use clock, if rules say i play a 2000pt game in one hour i will do so.

i build my list to suit the tournament...and i dont think tournaments should be built to suit lists.

but my biased opinion is no clock, reason its biased is i want what ever advantage i can get from the rule pack, that would give my horde army a easier win, but thats cause i want to win. i understanded the vaule of a fair game (and clock would be fair), i build my lists to win...and not so much to have a fun game.

like i say im biased...im all for giving me a edge.(and no clock gives my horde a edge)
and if i continue to be honest...
if i were to run a non-horde army i would gladly say bring on the clocks.

a non biased view...i really dont have a problem with clock or no clocks, i play to the rules, handicap or not...thats what makes tourneys exciting for me.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby AfkFanatic » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:56 pm

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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby burstear » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:20 am

has anybody accutually played 40k 2000pt in 2h;30min ?? and felt fresh and enregized enough for a 2nd game? and a 3rd?

as the days fighting drags on i tend to get slower and make more mistakes due to fatigue.

after a 2 day event i just wanna go home a sit and do sweet as f-kall for a day
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby Captain Sensible » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:07 am

I'm partially toying with the idea of playing in this thing. I will try my utmost to stick to the loser section of the event if I do go, and hopefully only play lekker okes and have lekker games. I sure hope I don't regret the games if I do go through though. I'm mostly keen on meeting Doc Rotgutensteinsburgershoff.
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Re: 40k Nationals – 1st/2nd Sep'18 – Warzone Jeppe Quondam

Postby burstear » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:46 pm

well...im very keen on meeting you Mon capitaine, and battling (beating) you.

nice thing about tournies is meeting the folks on generals, rift would be a nice fella to meet i reckon. dude seems to have a solid grip on the rules and has many times corrected me...so he neeeds a beating to.

well there are a fair few folks here who need a beating....i have a list of all the people here i wanna meet and beat.
only had the pleasure of meeting and beating 12 so far...ahh good times

but im drifting...NO clocks!!
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